| cuteus |
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Reply with quote | #1 |
My concern: a yr old society finch hen. She is trying to lay her first egg and I am afraid she is not going to make it.
Call it a gut feeling, but yesterday I took her to our Board Certified Avian vet for intervention. I knew something was not right, from seeing the other hens behavior at laying time.
The vet took an xray and it shows a misshapen egg and possibly the outline of another in the "background". It can't be good to be in "labor" for now two days and possibly two eggs looming about. She is still eating and drinking but obviously in distress.
The vet cleaned the vent area because poops kind of clustered and dried, gave her injections of oxytocin, Baytril and calcium. She is in a small cage, covered, heating pad under the cage and food & water close by.
I could not just sit by and shrug off the fact that spending over 100 bucks might be too much for my budget. I can not assign a monetary value to my companions, even if I paid nothing for them. Yes, I spend the money and do what can be done, to a reasonable extent. If the animal is eating and drinking giving themselves a chance, I have to allow them that chance.
It has been a day since the vet treated her and no egg. Is there anything that has worked for anyone here? I used a Qtip moistened with warm water to wipe some crusty poops this morning and "massaged" the area of distention. Is there any hope? What is the longest your hen has spent laying, successfully? I am prepared for her death but would like a different outcome, obviously. Should I keep her cage close to the flock or would that be too distressing? I have noticed that societies comfort the dying flock mates by cuddling and spreading a wing over the distressed society. I would hate for her to die completely alone if that is what the outcome might be. I am torn as to what would be the best, solitude or company?
Thank you for any suggestions anyone has.
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| Rose |
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Reply with quote | #2 |
Hi,
It would be a good thing to get some liquid calcium and a heating pad. Take a spare cage, take the bottom out, use the heating pad as a floor with a towel over it on medium and feed her the liquid calcium. Put her in the cage with water with liquid calcium in it, get some egg shells in her regular food and leave her in there until she lays her eggs. Also put her in a place were she is not going to be stressed. I have done this for 12 years and it has saved every egg bound bird I have.
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| Christina |
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Reply with quote | #3 |
I had an egg bound hen a few years ago and used a cotton swab with vegetable oil to help soften the vent area and then took her into the bathroom in a cage covered about 3/4 of the way. I set the bird and cage on the counter and turned the shower on for some steam and sat there for I think it was 15 minutes or so (not really long) and within 20 minutes the egg was laid. There is a great possability that this poor hen could have a medical problem and this process will only continue. The only birds that I have ever had become egg bound had long term medical issues.
It seems to me though that if you are so sure she is going to die then she should be put down to relieve her of her pain and discomfort. It is very unfair to let any animal no matter what size continue to suffer if death is the sure outcome.
I do hope that she is free from this stress and trauma by now and that this information is no longer needed, but if it still is, I do hope it is helpful.
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| cuteus |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Thank you to all that have given some input to this issue. I am beginning to think that I might have overreacted because she looked so bad for a couple of days. She is a warm cage by herself, with millet, seeds, cuttlebone, eggshells, greens, water and she is eating all of it. Still no egg. I will try the shower thing for moisture enhancement, since the air might be still too dry.
To tell the truth, it is possible that my other hens might have taken just as long to lay their eggs and because I was at work I did not notice how distressed they might have been the days prior. Right now it is 3 to 4 days since I first noticed her with wings sprawled and straining. I waited a day and a half after that to take her to the vet. Yes, there might be two eggs, but thinking back to her mother, that hen laid two eggs within the first two days and then spaced the rest during the period of a week for a total of seven eggs, each time. Always seven. If one fell and cracked, it would be replaced. She had to have seven in the nest. Don't ask me how she could tell. So, I am looking at this young hen, and in the cage by herself she seems active and alert, still straining at times, eating and drinking. She does not look like she is at death door, but I am still wondering how long can those eggs stay in there before there is actual death. Can it happen suddenly? Can eggs be reabsorbed into the body, does science know enough about these birds to answer even my first question? I have to rely on the experience of other benagalese owners, like those here, what they have observed in their hens, combine it with mine and hope I did not actually interfere with the process instead of intervening, as I initially thought. I am trying the bathroom with a humidifier and wait. thank you again
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| Karen |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
1. You can put a tiny drop of mineral, vegetable or baby oil on the vent or use the q tip as you did. 2. Keep that area clean. 3. You can gently hold her over the steam on your faucet being very careful not to burn either one of you. 4. Keep the heating pad where she can sit on it, she needs the warmth to be able to pass the egg. 5. If none of the above works, have the vet puncture the egg and draw out the insides with a needle. He may have to remove the other egg as well as it can hard boil from the heat of the body and will be very difficult to pass. |
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| Angela |
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Reply with quote | #6 |
I have a suggestion, not sure if it is a good one, but can you see the egg at all. If you can see the egg that is a good sign it may be stuck, I know they are not the same birds, but I had a set of parakeets and she had her egg stuck we could see the egg, but she couldn't get it out so my husband tried to get the egg out and got it out for her; she lived as well as the babies, so look for that. |
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| Marty |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Hi Cuteus,
As long as she is eating and drinking these are good signs. The Calcium shot that she got from the vet will surely help her lay her egg/s. Since you already have her in a hospital cage and she is warm then that will also help her.
Something that you can do is to take a Q-Tip and put some petroleum jelly on the tip and ever so gently rub it on and around her vent then put her back into the heated cage. If that doesn't work then try putting in a warm bath, not hot but warm to the touch. See if she will go into the bath and then see what happens.
Good luck,
Marty
Quote: Originally Posted by cuteus
My concern: a yr old society finch hen. She is trying to lay her first egg and I am afraid she is not going to make it.
Call it a gut feeling, but yesterday I took her to our Board Certified Avian vet for intervention. I knew something was not right, from seeing the other hens behavior at laying time.
The vet took an xray and it shows a misshapen egg and possibly the outline of another in the "background". It can't be good to be in "labor" for now two days and possibly two eggs looming about. She is still eating and drinking but obviously in distress.
The vet cleaned the vent area because poops kind of clustered and dried, gave her injections of oxytocin, Baytril and calcium. She is in a small cage, covered, heating pad under the cage and food & water close by.
I could not just sit by and shrug off the fact that spending over 100 bucks might be too much for my budget. I can not assign a monetary value to my companions, even if I paid nothing for them. Yes, I spend the money and do what can be done, to a reasonable extent. If the animal is eating and drinking giving themselves a chance, I have to allow them that chance.
It has been a day since the vet treated her and no egg. Is there anything that has worked for anyone here? I used a Qtip moistened with warm water to wipe some crusty poops this morning and "massaged" the area of distention. Is there any hope? What is the longest your hen has spent laying, successfully? I am prepared for her death but would like a different outcome, obviously. Should I keep her cage close to the flock or would that be too distressing? I have noticed that societies comfort the dying flock mates by cuddling and spreading a wing over the distressed society. I would hate for her to die completely alone if that is what the outcome might be. I am torn as to what would be the best, solitude or company?
Thank you for any suggestions anyone has.
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| Nick |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
I have 80 gouldian, cordon bleus, etc..when they are egg bound I will put a warm compress near the vent to help relax the bird, also a shot of liquid calcium is suggested. DO NOT KEEP A MALE WITH HER ...only females for good reason. A UV light is suggested as well and a vitamin all-around supplement.. in the future alot of cuttlebone and egg shells microwaved to prevent binding. REMOVE THE MALE.
NICK - I WILL KEEP THE BIRD IN MY PRAYERS.
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| Andrews |
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Certainly sounds like you are doing all the right things - keeping her warm, quiet, and making sure she has plenty of calcium.
I have an 18 year old green cheek conure, and she was eggbound the first time. Then she laid eggs every spring for more than 10 years, without any other birds in the house! So this doesn't mean that the bird will be sickly.
Hope all goes well.
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| Maria |
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Reply with quote | #10 |
I once saw a cockatiel at a vet's office; the bird had been eggbound for many days; 12 days as I recall, which astounded me. The avian vet there saved it. Don't know how long a finch could last. It sounds to me (we have bred goulds and societies) that you've done everything that can be done. Warmth is the best thing. If the bird is drinking, can you offer some Gator-Aide, to help with electrolytes; Also, if the bird still is eating, some smashed up graham crackers (sugar for energy) are very well accepted. Those lights sold for reptiles are pretty good. - Maria |
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| cuteus |
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Reply with quote | #11 |
I guess it is time for an update, for those that showed interest and caring, those that offered some support and suggestions with the hen, whose name I had forgotten was Snowcrest.
As mentioned in my post, she was placed in a cage by herself, heating pad underneath, in the bathroom with a vaporizer running all day. She had food and water sprinkled with cuttlebone shavings because I had no calcium supplements that could be given orally. None of the pet stores carry such supp.
After taking her to the first vet (on 10/23), and the shots mentioned above, she continued to be by herself until 10/28, when I took her to Dr Hoeffer in Island Exotics. Snowcrest seemed so strained and exhausted, and her little body felt colder that morning, ( I had been putting some mineral oil on her vent area daily with a Q tip, and that day I used another Qtip moistened with warm water to "massage" her abdomen and egg area, gently pushing on the egg on both sides and downward much like you would with a baby, trying to straightened the sideways looking egg shape). On other days, I had placed her vent area in the path of the vapor as suggested here and used warm compresses. I also submerged her bottom half in warm water as suggested in a vet site. No egg. I was ready to let her go that day since she looked so tired. She was still eating and drinking throughout.
When we got to Island Exotics, there was actually more distention in the vent area and an egg was actually visible! No egg had been visible in the vent area during all the days she had been "egg bound". The visit went from poss euthanasia to egg removal, suggested by Dr. Hoeffer. It was a hope. I said yes. The egg was removed with tiny forceps (I did not see the procedure TG) and tiny speculum was used to dilate vent (ouch!). The egg pieces were soft to the touch, not calcified enough, even with all the supplementation. She survived the procedure, was given more calcium, plus I purchased Prime vits supplement to give to her and all the other finches.
Snowcrest seemed so relieved the rest of that day and the next. Then, the following evening, she again looked stressed. I knew there was another egg because of the xray and because the other hen usually lays an egg a day until seven are laid. Here we went again. Waiting. I had been given a bottle of calcium syrup supplement to give her on that last vet visit. I continued that, plus the Baytril. Q tip with oil and warm massage of the abdomen. Vaporizer and heating pad. No egg.
In reading articles about egg formation and binding, trying to determine if for some hens egg laying can normally be as long as Snowcrest's, almost all articles stated that it should be 24 to 48 hours from fertilization and it seemed as if my finch should have been dead according to their information. Very discouraging.
During this time, the hen a bit older than Snowcrest started laying and her eggs were well formed and calcified, so I began to suspect that Snow might have some physical problems unknown to us (she is one of 4 hens and all the rest seem to lay eggs ok).
We continued the waiting, she was still eating, drinking, chirping to her family occassionally and on 11/2, in the evening, I got a very bad feeling that I could not shake. I resigned myself to finding her dead in the morning. I had made an appointment with the first vet(Dr Dee Hensen) that morning because she happened to have call(perfect timing) for a follow up and I mentioned the poss second egg binding. We wanted to xray her again to confirm the second egg, its shape and position. The vet could not see her until the next day, I figure what will be, will be, and finch was still alert and eating, so we waited until then to see the vet.
On 11/3's morning, with trepidation, I walked into the bathroom and there she was, perching and looking at me. Underneath the perch there was a weird looking "seed" that upon closer inspection looked like a very small garlic clove, same shape. A tiny yellow drop on my finger confirmed that it was to be an egg. She had spent that night straining to pass the collapsed egg! I started worrying about yolk and albumen problems (that I read about in my search), so I was not completely relief that all was well with her. I wrapped the "egg" in tissue paper to bring with us to the vet. Snowcrest looked better, alert and chirpy, so I went to work with plans to come back at lunch time to pick her up and take her to Dr Dee's.
The vet confirmed it was "the egg", did not think that an xray was needed, pronounced her well (finch had been vocalizing the whole time we were waiting to see the dr.) I wanted to continue the Baytril for a few more days, just in case. The vet did not think it was neccessary but gave me a bit to take home. I made a joke about how Snow was pretty much a "dead bird walking" according to all articles I had read over the days this ordeal lasted and we enjoyed a laugh of relief. Finch was dubbed a miracle by both of us..
I wonder how many other hens could have survived weeks of egg "binding" if not put to sleep because of the bad prognosis that usually accompanies the problem. Do we know how long they can survive? Was it really an egg bound situation if it lasted over two weeks and she did not die? There was a lot of gut feeling and trust that went on one day at a time, my gauge was her continuing eating and good appetite for greens. If she had stop doing those things, I might have done things differently. It truly was a one day at a time situation, for two weeks.
I was afraid to put her back with the flock, because of the constant mating attempts by the boys, and the possibility of more problems, but she really looked stressed being by herself, kept chirping each time she heard them, and at one point escaped from my hands to join them. Finch had become more resistant to holding and was pecking me gently when picking her up. She was asserting herself and her wishes.
I let her joined the flock after 3 days. Today will be over a week. I did not want to post here for fear of jinxing her by "talking" about the outcome of her ordeal. What if while I am mentioning this, another egg is forming and trouble looms again? Yes, I am paranoid and superstitious. Forgive me!
She has been acting so happy. Joining the others in flying around, bathing and fighting over the leaf of chicory and cilantro. I will let nature take whatever course it takes. I have noticed that her stance seems wider than the others and her legs slide out when standing on the wires of the cage, so I am thinking she might be mildly splayed legged. That was a fear I had when she was a baby all by herself in the nest with no siblings bodies to keep legs closer. She can perch fairly well and compensates by standing on the spray millet when on the cage top, where I tie the spray.
It might be that the mild splaying prevents her from pushing properly and that she might have other internal problems I don't know, but I have to just enjoy the fact that she is happy and healthy right now. Enjoy the look I get when I walk into the bird room. When she flies over, lands close to me, looks up and sideways and seems to say, thank you and I love you. It honestly feels that when those tiny dark eyes stare into mine, there is a flicker of affection in them.
I am just going to enjoy her one day at a time.
thank you again to all that showed support and caring
Ivette
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