| anonymous |
| | 02/21/09 at 02:27 PM | Reply with quote | #1 |
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moderator, i wish to appear anonymously for reasons of discretion.
i'd like to post for others to know the civil rights violation i experienced yesterday (2/20/09) at 8th Avenue & 24th Street (SW corner) next to the area of apartment buildings known as 'Penn South'.
Walking from 9th Ave down 24th Street i had tossed some 'bread' (not bird seeds) to a sparrow under a dumpster along with some starlings. At the end of the street is the St Vincent's Medical Clinic where there is a small type of garden where certain migratory birds hide among the bushes as well as sparrows.
The temperature was a bone chilling 25 degrees or less. i had tossed a small amount of small bite size pieces of bread to the sparrows when i noticed a police man talking on his walkie-talkie as he approached near me.
he came up to me & asked me for some ID. he said he'd seen me feeding the birds, which was against the law.
Since i cannot afford a summons i asked him to let me go with a 'slap on the wrist' & that i wouldn't feed birds over here anymore, etc.
instead his partner approached me & they threatened to take me to the precinct to get 'finger printed' if i had no ID on me. i was told it was 'against the law' to walk around the city without ID. This is the first time i've heard of this. i happen to be American as well as a native new yorker.
I said if i show u my ID u wil write me a ticket. So they called for a squad car to come & get me.
At this point i showed some ID & was promptly given a ticket for $100 for 'Littering', which is absurd. I never litter & in fact recycle what can be recycled.
They lectured me on how feeding birds brings rats, etc.
i happen to know that if food is not left over after sunset there will be none left to attract so-called rats. they didn't care what i had to say. instead they made me feel like a criminal. people passing by thought the cops were ticketing me for breaking some law.
It seems this city is heading in a fascist direction. I was in truth not feeding pigeons, as I know this presents troubles for most residency buildings & businesses. these cops r running around in that area ticketing the unsuspecting--who happen to be nice people, as i know. i believe they r in the sole employ of Penn South who r starving out the squirrels & whatever wildlife is trying to subsist in that area for reasons of corparate inteersts, which is a trend going on all over the city, which caters to the rich. the whole time these guys had me cornered the sparrows were in the bushes looking up at us, hungry. i felt bad that i couldn't help them out.
Needless to say, I found the experience demoralizing, humiliating & a violation of my rights as a citizen.
Had I run from them i'm certain they would have had enforcement after me, like i was a convicted felon escaped from prison.
they were rude & they wouldn't give me a break. i happen to be on a low income & find the summons to be a bit steep.
when i examined the ticket more closely i saw that the officer gave the date of my hearing as 2/20/09 at 8:30 AM which in fact was yesterday & had already passed. it seems because of this mistake i should not be responsible for missing my court date since it had passed before i was issued the summons.
i would appreciate some input on this matter. & consider this a heads up to those kind souls who brave the freezing cold weather to throw some crusts of bread to the birds. i don't think we as citizens shoud stand for this kind of strongarming by local enforcemet, who as usual never catch those who r committing atrocious acts of cruelty. the police r in the employ of whoever pays them which in this case is some corporate conglomerate whose interests r purel monetary. what about the animals? someone has to stand up for them.
thanks for hearing me out.
--anonymous
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| Susan |
| | 02/21/09 at 04:07 PM | Reply with quote | #2 |
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I urge you to post your name, the name of the arresting officers (if you wrote down that info) and the contact info for us to write letters/make calls on your behalf.
Susan
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| Jennifer |
| | 02/21/09 at 04:14 PM | Reply with quote | #3 |
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I agree, I will send a letter on your behalf as well, this is outrageous. I have friends in law enforcement, I am going to inquire about these so called laws about not feeding wildlife. Do you know that on Long Island, people go to the parks just to feed the ducks, birds, squirrels, etc. Why is it not against the law there? Its so ridiculous. It sounds like these cops had nothing better do than to harass you for no reason. I feed the wildlife around my house and I live in the city and I have never had a problem. I also take care of feral cats and they says you can't feed them BUT by law, it is illegal to intentionally starve a stray animal that has no way of accessing food on their own. And the reason there are so many stray animals is because of human beings carelessness and lack of education on fixing their pets.
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| Zhao |
| | 02/21/09 at 04:25 PM | Reply with quote | #4 |
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Although we should all obey the law but we must ask ourselves is the law morally right? In this case I wouldn't worry much at all, don't even bother paying the ticket because it's such a small "crime". What are they going to do really, send you to jail?
There are dog turds every where on my street and on the nearby streets and I've never seen the police give a ticket to any of those dog owners. That is the worst kind of residential littering.
Why don't the police take care of other real crimes rather than bothering ordinary citizens? Why don't they arrest the real thieves like those greedy CEOs, investment bankers, selfish governmental officials, etc, that caused the US, and rest of the world, to be in such a mess! That's the real littering that should get fixed.
So I say go ahead and feed those birds and other wild life in New York. We may afford to screw ourselves but let's not harm nature any further.
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| Janice Sclafani |
| | 02/21/09 at 04:37 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
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This is an appalling story.
And then New York's finest wonder why some people get disgusted with them?
I am not painting all NY police officers with a broad brush, as that would be unfair and inaccurate.
However, I think it is fair to say, that all officers should be doing what they can, to maintain the image of law and order.
And every officer should conduct themselves with behavior that shows they deserve to wear the badge, instead of making a mockery of the law, by pushing around people that are hardly to be considered some sort of *criminal element*.
Picking on a bird feeder?
Has crime gone down this low, that they had no one else to pursue, that is breaking the law in some seriously dangerous way ?
I think this behavior on their part, was way over the top and those officers should be embarrassed that they used such strong arm tactics for something so trivial.
Let us wonder if they go after those who litter( a far more serious crime) with the same zealousness that they do bird feeders?
At least the birds are consuming food that would be thrown out- and wasted.
( And some of that food is from people that are not even intentionally feeding them, but rather, just tossing their unfinished food by the side, onto the ground. Uhhhh. I think that would be called littering?)
As for this poor person's ordeal , I have to wonder, was this part of meeting the ticket quota for the week?
I have seen some excellent police officers in action- and then I have seen corruption right in front of my eyes.
Because it truly is a mix of the good and the bad, this is why, I can't paint with a broad brush.
We have seen officers also come to the aid of animals- wild and domestic- so we know we do have officers that will respond for requests for help and who have an affinity for animals.
Unfortunately?
We also have some police officers that get off on some kind of power trip- and picking on the defenseless birdfeeder is pathetic.
Bet they wouldn't have played that game so easily with a gang member in a bad neighborhood.
I wonder if they are related to Andrea Peyser? 
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| Mike |
| | 02/21/09 at 05:07 PM | Reply with quote | #6 |
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Hello:
Suggest you send this entire message to city councilman (avella@council.nyc.ny.us). He's a strong advocate for animals and people who help animals. The cops had no business giving you a ticket or a warning. There is no bird feeding law on the books. There can be a no pigeon feeding sign on private property only, or in a city park. I live near your area and there are no signs forbidding bird feeding on a public sidewalk. I would also send your post to the ombudsman's office as well. Don't bother with police commissioner or Mayor Bloomberg; they're both a-----holes. I feed the pigeons every weekday where I work and weekends in the St. Vincent Hospital areas. The cops who ticketed you are probably rooks with time on their hands, or just frustrated with their job assignments.
Good luck,
Mike
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| Lily |
| | 02/21/09 at 05:09 PM | Reply with quote | #7 |
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This is police abuse and bulliness, complete misuse of their position of authority. I don't know the poster's gender, but I figure you are a woman because of the mistreatment you received. I just spoke with the 19th precinct and was informed it is NOT ILEGAL to walk around the city without an ID. They did say it is illegal to litter and some may consider littering throwing food on the floor. I am sorry you were bulldozed in such a disgraceful way by 2 inept, incompetent, stupid guys that get paid with our tax money.
The poster ask for people to stand for wild-life, I said we have to stand up for ourselves. If something like that ever happens to me I would go to the precinct and ask to speak with the Chief and of course demand legal aide.
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| Terry |
| | 02/21/09 at 05:48 PM | Reply with quote | #8 |
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It's a good thing that because of the economy, Mayor Bloomberg has had to cancel the 2010 rookie police class ! How lucky we are that there will be less morons in blue uniforms to give out tickets for feeding ( recycling stale bread ) our beloved birds ! Are the existing police officers instructed to give out these totally ridiculous tickets in order to collect more money for "the city" ? As it is now impossible to park a car in New York City on the street without feeding a meter EVERY hour to boost the city kiddy, are we now also to fund this same account with nuisance tickets given to animal and bird lovers ?? I'm fed up !!
our beloved birds
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| Mark Caponigro |
| | 02/21/09 at 05:59 PM | Reply with quote | #9 |
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Anonymous writes: "It seems this city is heading in a fascist direction."
Yes indeed, Anonymous's experience certainly sounds Kafkaesque. But, just to quibble about the chronology, there were plenty of fascist tendencies amongst the NYPD and those directing them already in the days of Rudy Giuliani.
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| tamara |
| | 02/21/09 at 07:00 PM | Reply with quote | #10 |
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| I had a similiar experience on the upper east side with my dog- basically these policeman are probably trying to reach a quota you were an easy mark and if you go to court it will be in a room full of people who have had unleashed dogs, open beer bottles etc.They are all nuisance crimes and a way to fill the city coffers.The police can't go after a truly difficult suspect like someone from the projects nearby on tenth and 24th who is committing a real crime they are basically lazy and cowardly ( donut anyone?)-but you feeding a sparrow are an easy arrest -a quick way to reach a quota and use the bullying skill that comes so naturally to the police.It took me a long time to realise that the police are creeps for the most part .I used to respect them but no longer can after reading how many of them are involved in mean spiritedincidents( pushing bicyclists etc)My own situation was horrific they arent all bad but the problem is they arent all good and the ID request is supposedly illegal unless you are in a car- but no one knows for sure i was told it was a leftover from Guiliani post 9/11- just remember you were easy to arrest and they actually think their badge inspires respect which it does not.Go to the kangaroo court pay your fine and use some city service that you just helped subsidize with your 100.00. |
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| anne |
| | 02/21/09 at 08:03 PM | Reply with quote | #11 |
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thank you for feeding the birds; I have experiences like this throwing bread; says brings rats
just ignorance talking
just think about how much the Birds appreciated the bread crumbs; wa htere a fine: I would pay the fine; and aovid letting anyone see you tossing bread bits;a
I have a bag of seeds to put out for the birds; I acutally have to put the seed out in the cover of night ! as if feeding birds is a cirminal offense ! 
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| Jerald kreppel |
| | 02/21/09 at 08:33 PM | Reply with quote | #12 |
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If you miss your court date, a warrant will be issued for your arrest.
You must go to court immediately and find out if a warrant has been issued.
If so, tell the clerk why you missed court and they will have you see the judge, who will give you a new court date.
On the court date, do not plead guilty. The summons may be dismissed if it is defectively written, as is often the case. Even if it is correctly written, plead not guilty and demand a trial. At trial the officer has to show up. Frequently they are too busy and don't show up for violation cases, and the case is dismissed.
Even if the officer does show up, the judge may not view feeding the birds as littering and may dismiss your case. The worst that will happen is that you will be found guilty and have to pay a fine.
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| tamara |
| | 02/21/09 at 08:56 PM | Reply with quote | #13 |
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| the whole focus of the court date will be on how you are prepared to pay the fine it has nothing to do with justice and will make you a cynic if the arrest hasnt done so already- bring a credit card or cash- dress nicely and be prepared to listen to at least a hundred cases of open budweiser bottle, public urination , dog off leash- remember arresting someone for a real crime rarely puts money in the city coffers often itcosts money but these nuisance arrests are bread and butter to the city.I was crossing 43and sixth on a sunday morning in the spring last year about 11 AM. A lunatic threw a bottle at pedestrians crossing the street- it shattered wildly. A few feet away in Bryant park I saw a big beefy policeman strolling around looking at the scenery I asked if he had heard the ruckus and saw the bottle thrower of course even if he had it was easier to stay in Bryant park . And he was secure that parked a block away was a police command center and this bozo could fulfill his day probably issuing nuisance arrests rather than going after a real troublemaker who would require effort and net no money for the city..So just remember you have entered the bowels ofthe city when you go to court but it is what it feeds off. |
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| Gabriella |
| | 02/21/09 at 09:18 PM | Reply with quote | #14 |
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This is a travesty what's being done to the pigeons in New York City. This is roughly the 4th such malfeasance the City of New York has instituted against the pigeons! They are even netting them...and now this, not permitting their feeding!!! Something must be done! Where's the LAW that promulgates this obvious genocide? We, The People, demand PROOF from NYC that what it does is legal! |
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| John Smythe |
| | 02/21/09 at 09:45 PM | Reply with quote | #15 |
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This person needs an attorney quickly. If low-income, then legal assistance at low- or no-cost is available. I would particularly recommend a conversation with Legal Action for Animals, 718-544-0605, to see if this is something of interest to them or if they could suggest an appropriate course of action.
If it is clear that the ticket was issued the day after the specified return date on the summons, I think that might be particularly interesting to pursue. Were I holding such a ticket, I would figure out who the relevant chief judge covering that part was, send a copy of the ticket showing the date issued to be after the return date, with a cover letter explaining the circs, and asking the judge what was recommended. I would send copies of that missive to all the investigative reporters at newspapers and TV stations.
I would also be keeping in mind that this sounds arbitrary and capricious -- Article 78 material, perhaps?
Finally, I have actually met some smart peace officers; none of them in recent memory has been part of New York's Dumbest & Most Perverted. Also, is not illegal to feed the birds.
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