| Donna |
| | 03/12/08 at 09:06 AM | Reply with quote | #1 |
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I came to the office this morning at 8:45 a.m. by car from 80th Street and First Avenue, down Second Avenue to 61st Street and across to Fifth Avenue, down Fifth Avenue to 58th Street. I counted two pigeons high atop a building. None on the streets anywhere, none in front of the GM building where I work - there used to be a lot and many, many on the light poles on Fifth Avenue near the entrance to the park. From the 31st floor I could not even see any in the park.
Do we know if there are any left in the city at all? Have they all been exterminated in some giant conspiracy? Has the city been in cahoots with PA for their pigeon shoots? Are they permitting the netters to operate freely without any interference from the ASPCA, Wildlife Protection Agencies, NYPD?
Where can I find ALL information on pigeons in NYC and what has been going on for the last couple of years. Any history of pigeons in the city anywhere?
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| Margret |
| | 03/12/08 at 03:49 PM | Reply with quote | #2 |
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Hi Donna,
Yes, there are definitly many less pigeons and I, definitly as one of the "pigeon rights" active bird club members would like to know why. Why are these poor defensless birds being targeted with such hatred and cruelity. Always glad to see people showing a concern and perhaps interested enough to join in our concern in trying to protect and save these wonderful, and intellegent birds
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| Lily |
| | 03/12/08 at 04:06 PM | Reply with quote | #3 |
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I also have noticed a lot less birds around my neighborhood. What is going on? They cannot all be dying from accidents or starvation. I feed many around here but I still see the flocks diminishing almost daily. Many times I think that because I feed them they are dissapearing, are people ( mainly supers) around here responsible? |
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| Janice |
| | 03/12/08 at 04:14 PM | Reply with quote | #4 |
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Yes, absolutely - supers and landlords are part of the problem, because they give Avitrol,which is a poison and it makes the pigeons suffer a slow agonizing death, even though it is illegal to give. I have seen pigeons hitting glass because they are disoriented. This is one of the symptoms of Avitrol. Avitrol, netters, birth control and lack of proper food are some reasons pigeons are disappearing and becoming extinct right before our eyes. |
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| van |
| | 03/12/08 at 06:16 PM | Reply with quote | #5 |
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i posted a message on another board yesterday re the same matter.
i have spent a lot of money over the winter feeding a flock which suddenly has diminished in size. no one got back to me about it; but i have been up in arms re the netters' recent activity in the city.
one of my favorite birds returned to my balcony today, dirty & tired. did she escape..? she was missing since the weekend.
please, stop complaining & take action.
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| Arlene |
| | 03/13/08 at 07:37 AM | Reply with quote | #6 |
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I have some ideas about how to combat the problems for pigeons, which I love. I am not sure if trappers are the ones taking the toll on their population, or if hawks are also getting more of the pigeons. Or if some of them are leaving the area on their own, not finding enough food or sensing a hostile environment: 1. If the police are not doing anything about enforcing the law about illegal trapping/netting of pigeons, form your own vigilante group. Where you know of activity, stake out the location; arm yourselves with bee-bee guns and your own net. When you see someone setting the trap for pigeons, let him have it with the bee-bee guns and throw your net over him, and call the police - you have just done a citizen's arrest. Or use the bee-bee guns to blow out the creep's tires. 2. A large group of you should get together and make an appointment with the mayor and discuss the lack of police cooperation in this issue. Since when do they choose what laws they will enforce? 3. At every opportunity, set up a table (decorate it attractively to attract interest) with positive information about pigeons - fact sheets, reprints of good articles, etc. - anything to educate the public and counter all the bad press. You want to do this anywhere there will be people, like craft fairs, health and fitness fairs, pet fairs, community and street fairs - really, anywhere you can set up an information table. Just some random thoughts of how to help - I refuse to believe in powerlessness. Arlene |
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| Yvonne |
| | 03/13/08 at 12:33 PM | Reply with quote | #7 |
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I also have noticed a dearth of pigeons. I live at 51st and Second Avenue and walk my dog in the area. I'm an actress so I have some free time (it's called 'resting'). So I can walk Trooper. He's a dappled dachshund. My husband does as well and has noticed the same regarding the pigeons. Trooper is now seven so I've walked in various areas in my neighborhood for seven years. I always carry some bird seed mixed with a little tiny dry cat food in a zip lock bag in my pocket and throw some when I come across the pigeons (and sparrows). Of course, I do it surreptitiously...well, you know why. Actually I think some of the birds know me. They are pretty smart. Of course, I don't really know...although it's nice to think so. (I think there's an upcoming TV show on the brilliance of pigeons...must check it out). However, I've remarked to my husband and friends that I've seen fewer and fewer pigeons these past couple of years...especially this past year. Now I know that the poachers seem to work on the upper West side...nevertheless, what is happening to the pigeons in my neighborhood? I even notice a daily difference! East 47th Street is a lovely boulevard close to the U.N., between 1st & 2nd Avenues. It's the only boulevard on the East side and for some reason a favorite of pigeons. There were always flocks of them there. And yet, lately I see only one small flock. Indeed, what is happening to the pigeons of New York City? I haven't seen poachers in my neighborhood..but why are the pigeons disappearing??? A thought on the minds of birds. We have a house in Sag Harbor and go to the beach and bay. The bay is closer to our house. I always bring food for the seagulls when we go to the bay to walk Trooper. A couple of weeks ago we went almost every day and we began to notice that the seagulls seemed to recognize me. I had my bag of food for them..Peter and I and Trooper got out of the car and there they were...they began to fly toward me to be fed. Really interesting. Peter thought they recognized the color of my coat..blue. Hey, when I was in Australia at the outer Great Barrier Reef, the fish were very friendly, especially when being fed. I fed a stingray in Miami. I've been on a couple of photo safaris in Africa...Tanzania & Zimbabewe. Oh, I'm going on and on. Bye. Yvonne. However, any thoughts on why our pigeons are disappearing? |
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| Lily |
| | 03/13/08 at 02:22 PM | Reply with quote | #9 |
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This morning my husband had an appointment at a radiology place on 72 and York so we walked from 85 and York, not fast because we had time. Besides the flocks that I feed around my apartment (about 5 flocks, I buy seeds at least 2xweek) I did not see any pigeons, now this is walking for 13 blocks or so at around 7:30 am which is the time I used to see lots of pigeons. I reached the radiology place with the bag of seeds in my pocket untouched!
I was wondering how does anybody buys Avitrol, look at this site. Also I thought native wild birds were protected by law, but obviously they are not:
http://www.avitrol.com/GrainFAQ/index.php#Are%20permits%20required%20for%20the%20use%20of%20Avitrol
Avitrol may be used to control: House sparrows
Pigeons
Starlings
Crows
Blackbirds (Red-winged, Rusty, Brewers, and Yellow headed )
Grackles
Cowbirds
Gulls * They say bellow that Gulls are protected!
On the question of whether Avitrol pose a threat to other species, they say:
If not properly used, yes. Avitrol is toxic to all vertebrate species that eat the chemical.
This means that any dog could die from eating the chemical or even a toddler or young child walking down the street. Avitrol obviously taste like food or the pigeons would not eat it!
And take look at point 8 under How is Avitrol used:
Since there will always be mortality, arrange to pick up dead and dying birds promptly and dispose of them in accordance with local regulations. Failure to do this is the most common cause of public complaint.
This is more toxic to people and other animals than pigeon shit would ever be! This is criminal! I am sure that regular pigeon haters do not know if their Super or Landlord is putting this poison on the streets. They walk their dogs or go out with their children and they are at risk of dying (we are a vertebrate specie)
According to them:
The Federal government does not currently require permits for use of Avitrol on any birds listed on the Avitrol Labels, EXCEPT FOR GULLS. State or local government regulations may require permits. This is why the label requires that the applicator check for the existence of such permitting requirements.
So the Federal government does not mind if bad intentioned people throw toxic chemicals into the streets and risk the safety and health of everybody, including killing pigeons?
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| Eve |
| | 03/14/08 at 05:06 PM | Reply with quote | #10 |
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It is springtime in New York, and in springtime, there have always been happy flocks of pigeons, strutting their iridescent stuff in the sunshine, beautifying and enlivening this concrete metropolis with their joyous fluttering and flight; spangled, living jewels; gentle, benign, soulful presence on our streets; jostling, bustling, bobbing along, soaring in on wing like poetry in air, their soft cooing mediating the harsh sounds of the city. I was in Manhattan, yesterday - - and it was a veritable GHOST TOWN, if you were looking for pigeons. The presence of the birds was conspicuously ABSENT. There were hardly any at all; I could have literally COUNTED how many pigeons I saw, in a place that used to be gloriously alive with birds. My dentist, who has an office overlooking Columbus Circle and Central Park South, remarked, upon my comment about the birds, that he had noticed this and wondered where all the pigeons went; that he had been noticing, looking out his second-floor windows, that where there had always been small flocks of pigeons, waddling contentedly around the park, now there were none. (And this is a man who has no interest in bird-watching; this is how obvious the absence of pigeons is). Furthermore - - those few birds that I did see, seemed disoriented and confused, as if they didn't know what to do, without the presence of their flock. All the birds on wing - - were flying far too low, at a level down with the traffic. I saw three dead birds, in the street, on Central Park South - - something I have never in my life seen at that locale. Central Park West was almost entirely devoid of pigeons, altogether. Throughout the entire city, as we travelled in the car, I noticed the same deal, with remaining few birds looking distressed and confused - - all flying too low. Where normally there would be a small flock of birds, I saw ONE, sitting there, huddled up and looking miserable. WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN THIS CITY?????? Pigeon-lovers, and lovers of life in general, take note: we are witnessing a genocide! We are witnessing a holocaust that has been waged against these animals. It is a quiet holocaust, because it attacks quiet things - - but PAY ATTENTION!!! - - these silent beings are suffering, and their populations are being decimated, in a purposeful attempt to wipe out, by means of extermination, this species of animal. If you think that this is overwrought, and exaggerated, I have two words for you: passenger pigeon. Seen any lately? WE NEED TO GET TOGETHER AND FILE A CLASS ACTION SUIT AGAINST THE A.S.P.C.A, FOR NOT UPHOLDING THEIR CHARTER!!!!!!!! Can I say it any more clearly??? (This has been done SUCCESSFULLY, in the past. This is what influenced the fact that the A. is no longer providing services for the city as the local pound, and now operate as a private entity. They are the sole source of humane law enforcement in this city, and are under OBLIGATION to provide said service!!). These gorgeous birds are being eliminated from our environment, and from our world. (Be mindful of the simultaneous actions toward genocide that is taking place in Italy, and other parts of the world). OUR CITY is NAKED AND BEREFT of these jewels, that have been STOLEN from us!!! The time to take action is already LATE! If a class action suit is not organized and filed against the A., that harbors the ONLY SOURCE for HUMANE LAW ENFORCEMENT that exists in this city, IT WILL BE TOO LATE FOR THESE BIRDS (it may already be so). P.S. to the DEC: What will your much-blathered-about hawks do for food, now? The pickings will be kind of scant! Eve
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| Lily |
| | 03/16/08 at 10:43 AM | Reply with quote | #11 |
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You are absolutely right Eve. We are witnessing a genocide. Pigeons have become hunting prey for the City and the authorities. Whether authorities are actively involved or not does not matter. They do not do anything about the birds disappearance. It's a good idea to get together and file a Class Action Suit against ALL parties involved. The ASPCA and the Police Department are a big part of it. But who will represent us? Most people (politicians and lawyers included) HATE the pigeons, blame them for everything, and are only happy to see them vanished.
I guess when the city is finally invaded by rodents because with no more pigeons, there will be a lot of garbage in the streets, pigeon haters will have to find other preys, they might be the squirrels, who knows, hopefully they'll blame each other.
I used to put a couple of water bowls as birth baths in our communal backyard. On Friday we received a 30 Day Notice to Cure from the Coop Board and their lawyers. They will take action against us and "repossess" our apartment, the threatening letter said, if we do not remove the "water that feeds" he pigeons. Now, this placing of water practice on the backyard has been going on for at least 25 years, way before we made the mistake of buying into this building. To show you the harassment, bullying and coercion one has to go through for helping pigeons!
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| Lily |
| | 03/18/08 at 10:41 AM | Reply with quote | #12 |
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Our lawyer is sketching a response to that bull.....it "Notice". It is plain harassment an has no legal base. Could you believe that one of the board members said "I see the birds diving into the water and splashing"! I guess that kind of free, natural behavior in birds he cannot tolerate. How dare they have fun on his backyard! |
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| Laci |
| | 03/18/08 at 11:14 AM | Reply with quote | #13 |
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But it's okay for intoxicated people to urinate in the street, throw beer cans on the sidewalk and make noise until all hours into the night. What about polluting our rivers. A recent article stated that our water is polluted with medicines, hormones and drugs.
When you think of the destruction that man is responsible for, it's absurd to think that people are upset about pigeons splashing in water.
People are the Earth's worst enemy, and that is a well documented fact. Keep defending and standing up for pigeons. You are a hero. |
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| Brown |
| | 03/30/08 at 04:55 PM | Reply with quote | #14 |
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In Chicago it is illegal to keep pigeons, so no pigeon clubs there. I hope NY follows suit work since I would suspect some of the trapping of feral pigeons may be for rooftop hobbies and pigeon clubs, not only for gun shoots.
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| Raul |
| | 12/31/09 at 10:42 PM | Reply with quote | #15 |
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| I know it's a little off but I've also been reaserching this matter where the pigeons are disapearing. But I'm not in ny but in Los Angeles California , for the last couple months I've noticed and extreme decline of pegeons. I use to wake up to the sound of pigeons stealing my dogs food. Atleast 10 pigeons and alot of flocks around the area there was also bird crap verywhere. At first I hated the birds but now it scares me are they disapearing on there own or are they being killed? Can our magnetic fields be changing? Because I researched somewhere saying that pigeons fly acordi g to magnetic fields so they k ow where they are flying. What is going on? |
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