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New York Bird Club > Forums > African greys > Sad news about Irene Pepperberg's famed Alex
 
 


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TammyNC
    09/09/07 at 11:14 AMReply with quote#16

I know I read somewhere that Alex began his plucking when Dr Pepperburg traveled.  He had also been sick with Asper.  So there are any number of "answers" as to what happened.  But making judgements and speculations is not helpful, it is mean. 

Anyone who has had a pet for 31 years and then loses them is going to be completely heartbroken.  And Alex was as much her pet as anyone on here with birds.  He wasn't used like a lab rat. 

What she did was try and show the world the intelligence of these amazing animals!  I hope that through her years with Alex, (and more years with Griffin and Wart) that people learn they are not a novelty, that they are very intelligent and understand a lot more than most of us thought possible!

My prayers go out to Dr Pepperburg in her time of grief! 
Tammy NC
    09/09/07 at 11:41 AMReply with quote#17

Thanks Lee!  I am amazed that people with 30+ birds!  Back in the late 70's and 80's the foods that we have available now just weren't back then!  A good friend has a Hy that is now almost 30, was bought back in 78.  I still remember that she had the "typical" parrot diet which was sunflower seeds and peanuts sprinkled with powdered supplements.  Now she was also the first person I had seen feed fruits and veggies to her Hy! 

Max is a totally spoiled bird, he has his own 20x40 sunroom, with "doggie" door and access to a huge outside enclosed area with fruit trees, nut trees and tons of other things. 

I just hate to see people make snap judgements about other people.  I know that out of our 13 rescue birds here 3 are plucked, came that way and either still pluck some or have ruined the folicles. 

TAF will have a formal statement about Alex next week and I just wish that people would wait until the necropsy results are in before starting controversy and rumors with opinions and specualtion.  Yes everyone is entitled to thier own opinions, but NOT at the expense of someone else.

Tammy

Ivy
    09/09/07 at 02:46 PMReply with quote#18

Alex's achievements are not only helping birds by raising the awareness of parrot enthusiasts, but our work has also reached beyond the bird world to benefit humans. The methods developed for teaching Alex have been used with great success by my colleague, Diane Sherman, PhD (NewFound Therapies, Monterey, CA), to teach autistic children various social and other communicative skills. Consequently, continuing the research at the Foundation is important to the world at large, as well as for the world of
academia.

The above is taken in part from the Alex Foundation Newsletter.  Animals are constantly being exploited and used to benefit humans.  Isn't it time for payback - when will humans be used to benefit animals?  Anyone up for volunteering to be experimented on in a lab to stop PDD, Giardia, feather plucking or any host of avian problems and illnesses that we caused in the first place by forcing these creatures into our cages?  If you don't want to volunteer, maybe we'll just abduct you and make you volunteer anyway.

And yes, I am saddened by the death of Alex, and my feeling is that he died in vain, and his only purpose and service was to fatten the pockets of African Grey breeders as thousands of people ran to the petstores and breeders in search of one of the world's most intelligent and "talking" bird.  Fly free Alex and away from the world of labs and animals exploiters.


Lee
    09/09/07 at 03:40 PMReply with quote#19

It amazes me that on one hand if someone here dares to write about knowing something about parrots or how they feel they are attacked for their view -that parrots are wild animals that we will never understand or know what is going on with them, yet when it comes to feather plucking, being in cages, wing clipping we suddenly have a strong understanding of what the parrot is going through and what he is thinking.  (By the way I do not believe in wing clipping or cages).  But I think there is so much hypocrisy going on on this site - which I might add in order to make sure you never kill a living organism you would have to sit very still and not move - or constantly sweep the floor in front of you to make sure you are not killing anything.  By the way, if you drive or smoke or even use a bus system or any transporation system for that matter you are harming wildlife.  Using electricity anybody?  Your damaging the planet. I could go on and on...People seem to judge and are quick to point the finger at others on this site. The problem with the animal rights movement is it is becoming less about animals and more about the individual being able to say everything wonderful that they do and how they are better then everyone.  This truly scares me!  Irene was about protecting birds and trying to stop birds from being taken out of the wild and used in the pet trade. She also wanted people to know that parrots were able to think and needed to be respected.  Irene is not responsible for human stupidity and running out and buying a parrot because it can talk. She was dead set against it.  My last point is, no one here knows if Alex was unhappy, only Alex knows that. Although, compared to other animals in captivity I can honestly say he was probably one of the happier ones.  some people miss the point...his life served to help understand birds and as I side note that what we learned from him helped to understand human problems too.  He was not used to discover a cure or anything for a human disease.  Get off your high horse and choose your battles wisely...otherwise all your "beliefs" are a waste of time and seen as a joke.  It is shame that the loss of a bird friend that was with someone for 30 years is met with people trying to let everyone know what their belief is and what their opinion is - alex passed away and it is sad day for parrots everywhre and a very sad day for Irene. I am sure she is devastated.  Compassion - you don't know what compassion is. 

Lee
    09/09/07 at 03:48 PMReply with quote#20

By the way, I love how Ivy chose to take only a small portion of what is said on the website to try and prove a point - really now, read the whole site. You have misrepresented what is said, picking and choosing only a small portion to fit your beliefs It makes your point worthless.  By the way, this is also on the site:

Evidence has been established which indicates that parrots are highly social and sentient beings, fully aware of their surroundings.  Despite this, thousands of wild parrots are captured and taken from their flocks and natural habitat for the international pet trade every year.  It is estimated that up to 50% of them die before they are even exported.  Additionally, captive parrots may be abused or mistreated, often unintentionally, and many are abandoned by owners each year who do not understand the requirements of parrot stewardship.  The mission of The Alex Foundation is to improve the lives of parrots in captivity and preserve those in the wild.

    The Foundation helps provide funding for Dr. Irene Pepperberg's work with African Grey's - Alex, Griffin, and Arthur (aka ''Wart'').  Dr. Pepperberg has developed training techniques that enable Grey parrots not only to produce, but also comprehend and use English speech appropriately. She has also shown that these birds can perform as well as chimpanzees and dolphins on many tasks used to evaluate intelligent behavior. The hope is that demonstrating that parrots are sentient beings will encourage responsible pet ownership, conservation efforts and veterinary research into psittacine diseases.
 
When trying to make a point it works better if take into account the everything that is written on the the Alex Foundation site otherwise your point is lost.
 
Kathy
    09/09/07 at 05:47 PMReply with quote#21

The education about parrots, their behavior and their intelligence was brought to life by Alex. He has made a huge difference in many parrot's lives. 

Darla
    09/09/07 at 05:52 PMReply with quote#22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy

Alex's achievements are not only helping birds by raising the awareness of parrot enthusiasts, but our work has also reached beyond the bird world to benefit humans. The methods developed for teaching Alex have been used with great success by my colleague, Diane Sherman, PhD (NewFound Therapies, Monterey, CA), to teach autistic children various social and other communicative skills. Consequently, continuing the research at the Foundation is important to the world at large, as well as for the world of
academia.

The above is taken in part from the Alex Foundation Newsletter.  Animals are constantly being exploited and used to benefit humans.  Isn't it time for payback - when will humans be used to benefit animals?  Anyone up for volunteering to be experimented on in a lab to stop PDD, Giardia, feather plucking or any host of avian problems and illnesses that we caused in the first place by forcing these creatures into our cages?  If you don't want to volunteer, maybe we'll just abduct you and make you volunteer anyway.

And yes, I am saddened by the death of Alex, and my feeling is that he died in vain, and his only purpose and service was to fatten the pockets of African Grey breeders as thousands of people ran to the petstores and breeders in search of one of the world's most intelligent and "talking" bird.  Fly free Alex and away from the world of labs and animals exploiters.


Ivy:  I can understand your position but there is another result from Dr. Pepperberg's work.  That result is the understanding that, indeed, these animals are NOT ours to exploit in any way.  I got my AG's years ago before I had ever learned of Pepperberg's work.  I was ignorant of the needs of birds and their intelligence.  I have evolved and Irene Pepperberg's studies have reinforced my own "gut" feeling.  My 20 years of living with birds has taught me one thing.  Birds are not meant to live in a cage or anyone's living room. They aren't here for our entertainment or companionship.  They are meant to live in the wild and live their own lives.  They have their own mates to find and work to perform.  They have needs to explore and fulfill as much as any human.  If it were possible, I'd bring my birds all back to their native lands and let them loose.  That's never going to happen because they could never survive.  They would either die of starvation or end up as some other wild animal's lunch.

In my opinion, Pepperberg's work is important. Her work informs us that animals have the ability to think & reason.  Historically, we've been told that only humans have this ability.  It isn't so.  We need the scientific basis for this argument in order to improve the lives of animals and in particular the lives of birds. 

I would love to stop the selling of birds in pet stores.  I would love to stop the breeding.  Birds are not meant to be kept in captivity.  However, in my opinion, Pepperberg treats her birds with as much respect as possible.  In the larger scheme of things, she is doing a greater good.

And, finally, I would firmly believe that underlying everything else, there was a bond between Alex and Pepperberg that surpasses any scientific study.  She is suffering a great loss.  A loss that isn't about her work.  It's about the loss of a very genuine and real relationship.

Unfortunately, you'd have to have spent several years of your life with an African Grey parrot to understand this.

Peace to both Alex and Dr. Pepperberg

Nancy Chambers
    09/09/07 at 06:14 PMReply with quote#23

To everyone!
Anyone who thinks there was any kind of "experimenting" going on with Alex or any other bird under Dr P's care just doesn't KNOW.  Alex was taught, the same way small children are taught.  It was all cooperative and voluntary on his part, and he LOVED Irene and all the folks who helped teach him over the years.  There was NEVER any kind of "research" or "experiments" done on or with Alex or any other bird that ever crossed Dr. Pepperberg's path.

How do I KNOW this?  I've been there, have met Alex, even done some videos in which he goofed around and outsmarted the folks there.  Alex, like most parrots, was a little human with feathers, and was treated as a little human, in every way.  He was her FRIEND for 31 years.

So...before you even THINK there was any cruelty or experimentation there, think again. If you want to malign Dr. Pepperberg, you'll have to answer to me. She is THE voice of us bird people in the area of avian intelligence, a spokesperson for ALL OF US, and is beyond reproach in her totally humane TEACHING methodology.  Just like a grade school teacher.  

Alex was OUR VOICE and OUR VISION with those naysayers who think birds and other animals are just stupid lesser beings. We will celebrate his wonderful life and mourn his sad death, and maybe we can all just get together and be kind to each other and move on. 

Thank you.
 
Nancy
 
Tami
    09/09/07 at 06:21 PMReply with quote#24

This is so sad, yet Alex is in a better place, certainly living as a "lab parrot" for all those years was not any sort of life for a parrot. Sure, he proved that African Grey's are intelligent but at the expense of living in solitude in a laboratory. If Pepperberg truly wanted to study the intelligence of a parrot she need only tour the world's parrot sanctuaries and spend time in these places. All she is accomplishing in her studies is to fuel the public's desire to acquire a Grey and create a life of misery for the Greys in her lab and the ones sold in the pet trade to the ill-informed public seeking a talking parrot.

Tami

Betsy
    09/09/07 at 06:25 PMReply with quote#25


I have volunteered at the Pepperberg Lab since Irene and the birds came to Brandeis University over five years ago and was there when we got the terribly sad news that Alex had passed away...Alex was treated like royalty!  He got more love and human interaction than many of our pet birds do. The students who work at the lab are even jokingly called "bird slaves".  Alex's training consisted of no more than two or three 20-minute sessions per day, five days a week.  The rest of his day, which began at 9AM and ended with Irene putting him in his cage at 7PM, he ate, played and interacted with students and staff.  He was out of his cage the entire day, including weekends. Irene never took him with her when she traveled because she thought it would be too hard on him. Alex was not a "lab rat" but a beloved pet who had many humans to love and care for him when she was away. I'm not sure why some people assume he was neglected or mistreated.  I can sure you that this just isn't true!  Thanks to all who have sent condolences.  They warm our hearts at this very difficult time.

Sincerely, Betsy Lindsay, The Pepperberg Lab
Diane Sherman
    09/09/07 at 07:08 PMReply with quote#26

I have known Irene for many years and have been spent time in her lab many times over the years. To watch the two of them together, I agree, they had a bond that went beyond a ‘lab experiment’ or a ‘working relationship’. Alex and the other two birds are / were not locked away in cages but out in the lab, in the middle of the all activities that were happening and receive love, attention and a tremendous amount of interaction beyond the significant work. Alex was not MADE to talk or work because you cannot MAKE a bird talk or work. The students and staff were excellent with Alex and the other birds. The students I met from Harvard and Braneis Universities were very brilliant, motivated and caring people. You need to experience Irene’s Lab before making judgments on what you think it was like or about. Alex was fully feathered once they moved to a new location. I never saw him under stress. Alex also had a great sense of humor.

 

We can argue about birds being in the wild and there are many very strong and passionate opinions on the topic. Let’s look beyond that aspect for the moment and look at what we have learned and what Irene and Alex have contributed to the world. We have not only learned the cognitive components and tool usage of Grey’s but how they learn, plus the technique Irene uses with birds has benefited many children with a variety of disabilities.

 

Irene’s technique was adapted for children by me and the technique has taught the children how to ‘read’ facial / body emotions, tones of voice, non-verbal language and engendering empathy in autistic and autistic spectrum children when it is thought they cannot demonstrate empathy or levels of empathy. It has taught children with autistic, autism spectrum, ADHD, ADD, NLD, and now children with manic depression disorder social skills, appropriate body language, how to protect themselves against cruel peers and many have friends for the first time in their lives. Irene and Alex’s work has made a positive and significant impact in lives of many children and parents.

 

Let’s focus on the accomplishments, celebrate those accomplishments and give Alex and Irene a moment of our appreciation for their dedication, knowledge and work they have done together. Alex’s death is a great loss to the world and he will be missed. My heart and love goes out to Irene.

Diane Sherman

Monterey, Ca.

Lisa Phillips C.A.S
    09/09/07 at 07:21 PMReply with quote#27


  I 125% agree with Nancy and Betsy, for I to am a close friend of the foundation and have sat and talked and know how the birds are taken care of and loved especially Alex, he was different. I for one know how friends of Alex's (from the lab Betsy being one) would fight over caring for him over long weekends and holidays. I challenge any of you nay Sayers to prove your birds (mostly caged) get more love, affection, better care and out time than Alex (the so called lab rat). And how disgusting to be speculating and tarnishing the achievements of Alex and Dr. Pepperberg, during  such a difficult and painful time. Allow Alex to go to God in peace. Please!


             Lisa M. Phillips C.A.S

             Rest in peace Alex, you will be missed, but never forgotten. Much
             light and love.
Lee
    09/09/07 at 07:51 PMReply with quote#28

Ivy - you are making this too easy.

1. Copyright has nothing to with it.  Copying any portion of the webpage would be against copyright laws - although I don't think it is since it not being used for profit and you aknowledged that it came from the site.  You copied what you wanted to try and make a point, which becomes invalid if you only copy what you want.

2. Please go back and read my post again. I never said anything about Alex being treated better than most birds in cages. Again you didn't read the post. I said that he was probably treated better then most animals in captivity. If you read it again you will see that I do not like cages for any animals, which by the way I do not have a parrot in a cage. So your point is invalid. Also please go to the Alex Foundation site again. He was not alone or in solitary confinement. He had Griffin and Wart - two feathered friends. He also had a host of human friends. Also please read the posts by Nancy Chambers and Betsy. Alex was not in a cage but at bedtime. Both Nancy and Betsy knew and/or worked with Alex. You have not. So you have no room to judge. If you had worked with him, or read everything on the foundation's site then I would give you some credibility.  Knowledge is power!  If you arm yourself with knowledge then you are able to make constructive arguments and make big changes! Otherwise "your points" are empty and credibilty is shot. Again, go to the site , read and learn!

3. I was going to mention this before but I didn't want to be harsh. Alex was not an experiment. He was not a "lab rat". He was a companion. Irene set out to change the perception of birds. She wanted to stop the exporting/importing of wild birds and improve the horrible conditions that some birds in captivity live in. I can't speak for her, but I assume that hse didn't agree with the "pet trade" industry. she wanted to prove that parrots have value, they they feel and have thoughts.  She wanted knowledge! Her knowledge could be used to make changes. Irene was a one of the ultimate animal activist. She set out to make changes, she did more then sit there and make "politically correct"  statements. She wanted people to think before they bought/adopted a parrot. (Which I hate the pet industry and wish parrots were not bought). She didn't want parrots stuck in a cage with a mirror as a companion.  Your statement in both your posts about people need to stand up and volunteer for experimentation is a valid one but not in this case. And here is why. That is a great statement when applied to animals used to discover new drugs to treat human illness, animals testing in the cosmetic industry - any animals in labs that are tortured and injected in order to "improve" human lives. (which by the way I am against and it makes me cry to know this still goes on in this day in age).
But here, alex was not an experiment. He was a companion that taught Irene mostly through normal parrot/human interaction. The neat thing about is, that through Irene's interaction with Alex she was abble to see a correlation between Alex development and children with autism. He was not used to inject drugs in order to try and find out if autism could be "treated".  Irene was not trying to treat autism.  By the way, If you own parrots I hope everyday you learn something new about them and keep their minds active.  I assume you do since I beleive you care deeply for animals.  You are right, parrots in the wild enjoy freedom. They enjoy huge amounts of interaction with there own species, other birds and animals, the wind, the sun and the moon and so on. You are right in your belief that this cannot be duplicated no matter what humans try to do - it is impossible and sad.

I now challenge you Ivy. Read the posts by Nancy Chambers and Betsy. Go to the alex Foundation site again.  I challenge you to arm yourself with good solid information and knowledge. I challenge you not to judge!  I know you will be better person for it and will truly understand about animal rights and be able to make big changes!
Su Egen
    09/09/07 at 09:09 PMReply with quote#29

I volunteered in the Pepperberg lab during their time in Arizona at the University of Arizona. I was asked to come in and work with Kyaaro, one of the birds, with Attention Deficit Disorder. Living with parrots, I jumped at the chance to be in this environment. Later I moved on to manage the database an area I have much experience with due to my non profit work.

All of my work was in the lab and I was there often with Alex, Kyaaro and Griffin. It is difficult to imagine a more positive, interactive and interesting place for the grey parrots than the lab. Unlike most birds residing in the home, these birds received undivided attention from staff and students throughout the day. The birds were not under any pressure to perform. Their sessions were not long and if the bird tired of the session, the session was ended. When not working, Alex hung out in the lab surrounded by his favorite people. He asked for objects and food, and students would get him the object(s) he asked for, some of which he had his own unique names for.

Alex preferred men with beards and jeans to most women and would fall madly in love with certain people. He would flirt continuously making loving noises to his favorites. He was a very happy bird. He would have long showers as well as time in “tree”, when he would go to his tree, upstairs, under supervision, and look out the huge windows and hoot and comment on everything and everyone.

Often Irene would work late, and in the early evenings one would find the birds on perches in her office supervising her activity. I was amazed at her dedication and love for The Alex Foundation Birds and the research. When the birds were in bed they chattered and played happily and I loved listening to them.

The lab was a very special place. To enter one would have to step into a series of disinfectant baths. The bird’s heath was paramount. To that end there were meetings on how to proceed in fire drills or emergencies as well as experienced staff for emergency medical. An excellent Tucson veterinarian cared for the birds. Food was of the highest quality and the diets were excellent.

Alex did feather pick, as do many captive parrots, when he was in Tucson. This “behavior” was not the result of illness, but could be compared to a nail biter. Greys tend to be high-strung parrots so this is far from unusual. When Dr. Pepperberg moved to MA, the plucking ceased. Improvement began before they left Tucson.

Alex loved his sessions and he was ecstatic when he could show off for cameras, guests or newspaper interviewers. In session he was the subject of much attention. When he misbehaved, Dr. Pepperberg would leave the room and wait outside the door, while Alex apologized and called her back, “I’m sorry” and “Come back”.

He was so adorable and brilliant, and hardly an experimental object. I wish Dr. Pepperberg had stayed in Tucson, as I enjoyed my time in the lab. My experience in the lab and with Alex and the others was completely positive.

At this sad time I don’t believe there is a place for negativity. Being someone who knew Alex firsthand, I can tell you that he was given a wonderful life and the best care. In captivity, there is no average age for parrots. They can and do die suddenly and unfortunately without warning that they were ill. Hopefully others will not have to experience this sudden loss.

The knowledge we are gaining and have gained from the research by Dr. Pepperberg is invaluable and will continue. The more we learn from it the more our parrots will benefit and the world at large.

I am grateful to have known Alex, Griffin & Kyaaro, Dr. Pepperberg and the Tucson group. I wouldn’t trade that time for anything. This is a very sad time for all.

Su Egen
Tucson, AZ
Jen Vicinay
    09/09/07 at 11:21 PMReply with quote#30

 I was a student that worked with Dr. Pepperberg, Alex, Wart, and Grif at Brandeis University for almost three years. I was recently at the lab, about a month ago, and Alex was his regular ornery self. He kept me on my toes by asking to "go chair" or "go back". He was also not shy about asking for what he wanted: "want nut", "want grain", "want cork". Alex was a very special bird and the world has learned much from him.

I would like to say to those people that believe Alex was mistreated or harmed from "experiments", that he was not. He was given the best care. For the years I worked with Alex in Massachusetts he had all his feathers and rarely plucked. He had constant attention from 9am to 7pm seven days a week. He had a fresh breakfast of fruits and vegetables prepared every morning, a snack of grains in the afternoon, and pasta, wheat, and pellets in his cage for whenever he wanted. He got fresh water in the morning and at night or during the day if he needed it.

 Alex was not over worked. The students and volunteers worked with Alex for short periods throughout the day and Alex enjoyed working. He would show off his knowledge and if he got board he would play around with the experimenters by giving all the wrong answers. When he did not want to work he was not forced to.

 Most of the time, Alex was not working and was free to do as he wished. His favorite students, (mostly males), would tickle him upon his request. I was honored when Alex asked me for tickles. This only happened a few times when male students were no where to be found. He would often ask to "go chair" if he wanted to be closer to someone sitting at the computer. He had different purches around the lab, which he could sit at when he wanted.  He was never neglected and given the best care.

People often hear animals and laboratory together and think of horrible experimentation with no concern for the animals' well being. This lab was the complete opposite. Alex's well being and happiness was Dr. Pepperberg's number one priority.  He was treated with respect and love. I don't think that it is appropriate to criticize this lab at this time, especially if you do not know how well Alex was treated. Dr. Pepperberg and all the friends of Alex are mourning right now and this criticism only adds to the pain. Please be respectful in this time of grief. My condolences go out to Dr. Pepperberg and all who knew Alex.

             Jen Vicinay
 

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