| Noah |
| | 11/02/06 at 10:04 AM | Reply with quote | #16 |
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And these nut jobs calling parrots (and other pets) children and babies. I have just one big question for you all -- would you chain or cage your babies and children? |
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| luciedove |
| | 11/19/06 at 01:27 PM | Reply with quote | #17 |
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"Unfortunately this is a very common problem everywhere. I sometimes wonder if exotic birds should be kept as pets at all, a hard statement to make since I am a bird owner and my living is made from caring for them. 'These are wild animals and many of them adapt very poorly to life in captivity. This mis-adaptation manifests as a huge array of behavioral problems. The public is never told about the potential problems i.e. noise, biting, aggression, self-mutilation, mess, etc., when they are buying a bird. 'They are told about the wonderful things i.e. companionship, talking, tricks, etc. This is a big mistake and, it leads to thousands of impulse buys by unknowing, inexperienced people who mean well but soon find that this was not the pet for them. Unfortunately it's the birds that suffer in the end, and I'm afraid that the trend you are now seeing is only the tip of the iceberg. It's not going to be easy to find homes for the thousands of unwanted birds that will be flooding the shelters soon. Not to mention that they live a long time when compared to dogs and cats." Sincerely,
Todd Wolf, DVM, ABVP |
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| Anon |
| | 11/19/06 at 04:55 PM | Reply with quote | #18 |
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"Generalizations, such as the bad rap that amazons get, lead the the rehoming of many birds annually" HUH? So people hearing stories....generalizations....lead to rehoming? How does that work. Like, they get rid of the bird before they ever have a problem with it just from hearing stories? That doesnt make any sense maybe it's not what you meant but what else could you have meant? Anonymous, you must not be reading your own groups website. As you know the Amazona Society is a breeders site. Of course they add the requisite ("and companion parrot enthusiasts) on the intro. The Amazona Society's Articles section online lists a WHOLE PLETHERA of behavioral problems. Giving them cute names like Amazon Overload Behavior (by Sally Blanchard), articles on aggression, unmanageable male hormonal behavior and more. It's ALL THERE in black and white. It's really not nice to try and BS the experts LOL. |
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| Kate |
| | 11/19/06 at 05:10 PM | Reply with quote | #19 |
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A bird certainly doesn't have to be broken down and resigned to make a pleasant companion. A bird doesnt have to be scared or beaten into submission to avoid overly aggressive, hostile, and screaming behaviors.
Anyone with bird experience ought to know that you have to work with your bird, work with your bird's instincts to curb negative behaviors and build a strong and possitive relationship. Blaming bleeding fingers and eardrums on the bird simply because 'it's a bird' is not giving it's intelligence anywhere near enough justice! The responsibility is on the owner to keep the bird entertained, happy, and stimulated just as much as it is to reinforce positive behaviors over negative ones.
Just like raising children, puppies, horses or anything else with a brain and a will you need to set boundaries and be consistant with establishing what is and isnt acceptable. You aren't inhibiting your bird by teaching it to use its energy and intellect in less destructive pursuits than screaming and biting any more than you are inhibiting a child by not letting them smear feces on the wall or throw tantrums.
If there is a relationship between bird and human based upon respect (and it goes both ways!) then negative behaviors can be curbed and even dispelled without going against the bird's instincts, just by reinforcing more positive behaviors!
To insinuate that someone with a good, loving relationship with their bird is a bad owner, abused or scared their bird into submission, is as insulting as it is wrong. I'm sorry that many of you have such negative experiences with your birds or other's birds. Such, owning a bird isn't for everyone and it requires alot of planning and forethought and lifestyle changes and should never be an impulse buy - but the hostility and generalzations here goes far beyond that and, I think, is uncalled for.
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| Anon |
| | 11/19/06 at 07:29 PM | Reply with quote | #20 |
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LOL, Kate, I didnt accuse him of anything about abusing his bird. Did you actually read the posts? Anonymous was the one who said it about his OWN bird. About a possible prior history from before he had him. And that he was 25 plus, and lived in many homes. And I applaud his giving a forever home. I was agreeing with him that it's not unusual. Point being you expect a senior Amazon to be less crazy even calm, compared to the hormonal 6 year olds everyone has. Quote: "Perhaps he was 'broken' in his former homes- but I allow him to be who he is, now, and he still chooses to have his soltitude. " Just because you never heard of the sad cases doesnt make it not true. Read about Beatriz's rescue (one of many) who came to her like a vegetable. She had to be physically moved from one side of the perch to another and wouldnt even look around let alone play with a single thing for a whole year and wouldnt drink water and let all the other birds steal her food and on and on. Sometimes it's good to actually read the posts you want to critique. Here's the post about Beatriz' rescue it's called "Dont give up on them". That's how terrible the NYCBC is, some members spend their whole days helping individuals who were thrown away. How about Randi Marie who took on a few troubled birds including one with crashing diseases said to be diabetes who died shortly after. OH, then there's the OTHER one, the Amazon kept in the cage for 50 years until his feet GREW INTO THE SINGLE PERCH he had. That post is here somewhere. Read some rescue sites. People beating birds, locking them in dark closets for years, banging cages when they vocalize, torturing them physically in sick ways like with cigarettes. The unlucky ones survive to live to remember it. Yeah, people are great. If you shut your eyes lol. http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/luciedove/vpost?id=1443482 |
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| Beatriz Cazeneuve |
| | 11/20/06 at 12:16 PM | Reply with quote | #21 |
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Actually, I find Amazons to be easier than Grays, let's say. They are more aggressive, no doubt about that... at least the three that I've had -well, two of them I still have. All three were, by far, the most aggressive birds I've ever had, mean, mean, mean -the technicians at my vet call Pretty Bird (red lore female) 'the carnivorous parrot' because she bites so hard. When we first got her, she would actually go out of her way to bite you and screams, OMG, she would scream all day long! But she is fine with me now and I can handle her with no problem. Granted, I am the only one but that's good enough for me. Teddy (yellow crown male) used to hate men and barely tolerate women but he is coming along, still a bit nippy but not mean at all and very predictable so it's easy to avoid the problem and he will, in time, become affectionate (I am now able to scratch his head and cheeks -big improvement!). And, poor Baby (orange wing male), an old breeder male, was completely unsocialized and died before I could turn him around. I find Amazons to be intelligent, beautiful and independent. They are also good eaters, bathers and fliers (all things I appreciate in a bird). They form bonds with other Amazons much easier than Grays, toos or macaws do, that's for certain! They are a bit nippy (especially the males) but it also makes them healthier from a psychological point of view, I think. I see them as survivors and I like that about them. A lot. I would much rather have a mean bird than a 'catatonic' one. A mean bird might have had a bad experience but he hasn't given up like Grays, toos and macaws sometimes do. And, if there is still life in them, you know you can turn them around. But, on the other hand, a big Amazon male is not an easy bird to handle for a person who does not have the knowledge so I never recommend beginners get one because you know it's a heartache waiting to happen. So, yes, there are two sides to the story. |
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| Jackie |
| | 11/28/06 at 11:42 AM | Reply with quote | #22 |
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I looked after my friend's Amazon when she went on holiday for a fortnight. I am the first in a block of 4 terraced houses, and the third house down in that terrace could hear his shrieking very clearly .... thats how loud they are!! It would start at around 2.00pm every afternoon, and not stop until about 4pm .... OUCH !!! |
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| Beatriz Cazeneuve |
| | 11/28/06 at 01:52 PM | Reply with quote | #23 |
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I wish you and your parrot all the best but wait until you've had the parrot for 10 years before you make any judgments on people who say parrots are not good pets. Ten years of no vacations, no romantic weekends at a nice B&B, of having to get up at 4:30 am in the morning during summer to feed him breakfast at dawn, of not being able to leave your house for more than a few hours a day during the winter because the days are so short, of expensive food and vet bills, etc. can change a lot of people's opinions about parrots as pets. And, I am not even going into sexual frustration (which starts hitting at around 5 to 8 years of age) and the consequent change in behavior (biting, screaming, possibly plucking, etc).
It might not happen with yours (and I really hope it doesn't) but it happens in 95% of pet parrots so the statistics are not good. People are not jealous of a well behaved, happy parrot, they are telling it like it is.
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| Randi Marie |
| | 11/28/06 at 01:59 PM | Reply with quote | #24 |
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Comparing a one year old parrot to an older bird is like comparing a darling 1 year old human learning to talk with a teenager or adult. They really don't compare. I hpe you enjoy your parrot through all his stages, but realistically, don't expect him to stay 1 year old forever.
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| SENSEI |
| | 11/28/06 at 02:14 PM | Reply with quote | #25 |
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I've had Amazons for nearly 30 years...they came to me over a ten year period...and although they're a handful, it's basically a peaceful, happy home...and yes, we do go on vacations, thanks to a sleep-in birdsitter. The birds are noisy for a little while in the morning, then again in the evening...same as wild birds are. They take a siesta in the afternoon. |
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| Bobbie |
| | 11/28/06 at 02:36 PM | Reply with quote | #26 |
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I am in very desperate need of help. Any advice would be grateful. Why would a 6 yr old Amazon parrot given out time, lots of toys, treats, human food, again pleanty of out time, companionship and love, tickles and shredding toys, everything a bird could ask for, go out of his way to kill other birds in the same room? I am talking a sun conure, and 2 parakeets over the years. Why??? Everything was done to supervise the birds out time. NO....the parakeets were NOT out at the same time as the larger birds. I mean, walking across the floor and climbing onto their cage and finding them gone, a horrible site that is for sure. Please, please help. Bobbie & Birdz |
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| Randi Marie |
| | 11/28/06 at 05:26 PM | Reply with quote | #27 |
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Amazons are very strong, and can be very jealous. I do know that Beatriz has a female eclectus who loves her husband, and she dares not let her loose and unsupervised in the bird room, as she's afraid she will hurt the other birds. I had a friend with a very jealous Amazon, who killed one of her lovebirds. I believe it's jealousy, and the only solution I can think of is to separate the Amazon from other birds. Perhaps Beatriz has more insight into this, as she's experienced it. I'm very sorry, that must be so upsetting to find your dear little birds killed like that.
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| Emily |
| | 11/28/06 at 05:27 PM | Reply with quote | #28 |
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3 years ago my dad told me he was getting an African Grey parrot. My gut reaction was "Oh God, oh no..." It was so obvious to me that he was getting it on a lark and that these animals should have all been left in the rainforests WHERE THEY BELONG. That went in his one ear and straight out the other. Chirping on and on he did about how African Greys are the best talkers---the man wanted a talking bird. He even wanted me to be the one who would take in the bird once he keeled over--to which I said "NO." So he gets the bird, and he seemed like a friendly thing at first. But the second time I met him I got bit. He bit my old man and his wife all the time. They would go away 11 hours out of the days to go to work, and then wonder why he wasn't happy to see them. Even if they were home, my dad would take the bird out of its cage and then fall asleep for 3 hours while the bird was utterly alone. Within a year he'd plucked himself terrible, and I thought that it was the saddest thing. My dad kept insisting that the bird was happy and had fun with them all the time. Then a year and a half ago, my dad walked out onto his porch with the bird on his shoulder, and because he hadn't been clipping the birds wings properly the thing up and flew away into the neighbors yard near the woods. They couldn't find him and he most likely perished. My brother was happy that the bird was finally free in one way or another & out of its misery. I wish I could take a poacher or a breeder and make them live in the 3x3 cage that poor Teddy did for 2 years, and get ignored and never have the family relationships that they deserved with their own kind and make them eats nothing but peanuts and sunflower seeds. They deserve to suffer more than poor Teddy ever did. |
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| Deb |
| | 11/28/06 at 06:38 PM | Reply with quote | #29 |
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Hi All, I realise African grey change with time. I have looked after on for 5 years for 1 month a year, i have also read so much, done lots of research. I found that last story so sad. Poor bird, too sad to even think of what may have happened to it. I know they are hard work but so worth while. I spend lot of time with buddy, as do all my family. He does occasionally bite as do they all but is such a character. Who ever called me darlin' "I will check back here in a year,if i remember, why are you so negative? There are people who live with birds all their lives and enjoy them. To the other lady who wished me luck, ty. I dont worry about not being able to go for long weekend, holidays etc, Bud has gone to our avian vets to stay while we went away and was fine and can go there if i go away again., They say make sure you get the bird used to change, i do. |
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| Deb |
| | 11/28/06 at 07:35 PM | Reply with quote | #30 |
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Hi, My Dad is a vet and i have aays had animals. I grew up with horses, dogs, cats, (still have 3), chickens, sheep etc and all need care, love and attention and even though buddy needs different attention, it still takes time, commitment, love etc. No animal should be left alone while you go away,i have to find people to watch m cats, feed them etc and i have also found a lovely vet who will care for buddy when i occasionally take a holiday. As for the biting, it was scary at first i suppose but show them no fear and it helps. Buddy really is part of our family, we all love him to bis and as with chldren you have to take the rough with the smooth. Buddy doesnt really scream, he chats for england but its great. He makes us laugh. |
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